RSS<\/a><\/p>\nTopics Addressed in This Interview:<\/h2>\n
Matt Tully<\/em>
Anna, thank you so much for joining us on The Crossway Podcast<\/em> today.<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Thank you for having me. I\u2019m so excited to be here.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
It sometimes seems to me that in the world people can be divided into two categories\u2014those who read productivity books and those who don\u2019t read productivity books. And yet, you open your new book on productivity making the case that this is something that all Christians should think about, at least to some extent. Why is that?<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Productivity can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people, but what productivity really is is just learning how to best use the resources you have\u2014how to use your time, your energy, your attention, your skills. And we all have time, attention, energy, and skills, and we want to use them well. So that\u2019s what productivity is about. We don\u2019t want to waste our lives, we don\u2019t want to waste our time; so I think we all should think how to make the best use we can of them.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
You have a lot going on in your life. You\u2019re an author, you\u2019re an editor, you\u2019re a speaker, you\u2019re very involved in helping Christians think about the intersection of faith and science, you\u2019re fluent in both Spanish and English, you have a popular YouTube channel with lots of videos, you have a podcast, and then on top of all that\u2014something I found very interesting, and I kind of wish we could do a whole interview about this\u2014you have a degree in clinical biochemistry. What is that?<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
The best way I can translate it in Spanish is Qu\u00edmico Bi\u00f3logo Cl\u00ednico, which literally translates chemist, biologist, clinician. So it\u2019s basically everything that happens in a medical lab. All the medical testing and things like that we know how to do, so that\u2019s what I studied in college. <\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
So you have all these things. I think you\u2019re obviously a pretty busy person. You\u2019ve got a lot of interests. So I think it kind of makes sense that someone like you would be really interested in this topic of productivity. But I wonder if you speak to where that came from. Did it arise from the fullness of your life, or did this interest come before some of that?<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Well, productivity is something that I\u2019ve always thought about because I\u2019ve always been sort of an overachiever. I grew up just doing a ton of different things. My parents always told me, I will not leave you with anything. I will not leave you a house. I will not leave you any money. I will leave you your education. That\u2019s all you\u2019re gonna get, so you try to make the most of it<\/em>. So I was involved in mathematics and chemistry, in singing and dancing and theater, and all the things. My parents would sign me up for every activity. So I always wanted to know more and learn more and have more skills, and I wanted to do my work well. When I was a student, I wanted to be a good student, and when I became a professional, I wanted to do my work well. So I\u2019ve always been interested in the topic of productivity. I\u2019ve always wanted to learn how to make the best use of my time and how to organize my projects. So it was a very personal interest. I began writing my blog in 2014 and I started writing on reading and books, but I never thought about writing about productivity. It was just a personal interest. Then, I realized that I had productivity wrong because I started to realize that no matter how much I tried, how much I succeeded, how many accolades I got, that would never be enough. It was always defeating. If I worked really hard and got the thing I wanted, five seconds later I would say, Okay, what\u2019s next? What\u2019s the next big thing?<\/em> Or if I didn\u2019t get the thing I wanted, I would be completely defeated\u2014I\u2019m the worst! I am no good!<\/em> There was one specific instance where I was recording another podcast, and it bombed. It was so bad. It was embarrassingly bad. I hope nobody ever finds that podcast. <\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
So we won\u2019t put a link in the show notes. <\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
No, no, no. There\u2019s not going to be a link. I was so defeated. I was praying and crying, God, I\u2019ll never speak again. I\u2019ll never write again. I don\u2019t want to do this. Why?<\/em> And then an hour later\u2014this is not a joke\u2014my boss at Coalici\u00f3n por el Evangelio in Spanish; I was a writer and editor there\u2014and he was like, Okay Ana, we\u2019re going to record a podcast on blah, blah, blah<\/em>. And he was not asking if I wanted to be on it; he was telling me, Okay, we\u2019re going to do this<\/em>. I just hang up and I said, Fine, God, I\u2019ll do it!<\/em> Along this time I was reading the book The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness<\/em>by Tim Keller.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
A wonderful book.<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
It\u2019s a book that I don\u2019t tire myself recommending to everyone. It\u2019s a book about how the apostle Paul was able to just be centered in what Jesus had done and the good things he did. His successes didn\u2019t make him boast, and his failures didn\u2019t crush him because he was secure in what Jesus had done for him. In that moment, everything clicked for me. Oh! I\u2019m doing the productivity thing wrong. I\u2019m using productivity to try to accomplish things, to try to become someone, to try to feel like I did enough instead of remembering that Jesus did everything and Jesus enough<\/em>. And from that security and wholeness that I find in the gospel, then I can use productivity to serve and to love, not caring about how well I do. Of course I want to do my best, but at the end of the day, it\u2019s not about me\u2014how smart I am, how successful I am. It\u2019s about God and what he\u2019s doing. So that\u2019s when I decided to start thinking a little bit more about productivity from a biblical, gospel-centered perspective, and I started thinking about the book.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
I want to read a quote from the book. You write, \u201cOur lives are not valuable because of all the things that we accomplish. Our lives are valuable because of all the things that God has accomplished on our behalf. And once we understand that, we are free to be truly productive.\u201d I thought that quote was interesting because it hits on this tension that we can sometimes feel as Christians. On the one hand, we know that we have this responsibility to use our gifts, to use our time and our talents responsibly. And yet we also often emphasize as Christians the need to wait on God, to trust God, to trust him to produce the good fruit that we\u2019re looking for perhaps. You might call it the \u201clet go and let God\u201d mindset that we sometimes hear in our culture. So how do you hold these two Christian impulses together, that we want to be responsible creatures, but we also want to let God be God?<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
I think the key is just looking at Jesus, at God. When you are every day learning about who God is, what he has done, what he calls us to do, you\u2019re driven to work and to work well. In Matthew, Jesus tells us we\u2019re here on a mission. You\u2019re not here to just hang out and just be comfortable. You\u2019re here to preach the gospel, to make disciples. That impulse is in our hearts, so it\u2019s very natural for us to want to do things. God has given us talents, he has given us passions, he has given us a brain and energy to do things. We\u2019re not made to just sit down. That\u2019s very natural in the gospel that when we are looking at Jesus, it just drives us forward to do things. But at the same time, looking at God gives us peace and rest to be able to do our best and then stop, knowing that God will take care of the results. So I find that just looking at God\u2014what he has done, what he has said, what he has called us to do\u2014gives us both the impulse to do good work for his glory and also the rest we need too. Don\u2019t worry about the results because in the Bible we see so many people that worked very hard and saw no results. And that didn\u2019t mean that God wasn\u2019t using them, it was just they weren\u2019t able to see the fruits in their lifetime. And that\u2019s okay. So just looking at God for that impulse and for that rest.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
Is there one of those tendencies, though, that you can still struggle to hold together? Are you more wired towards working hard, working hard? Is that kind of your tendency?<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Definitely. As I said before, since I was little I was an overachiever. I just wanted to do things and do them well and feel like I was improving I guess. One person asked me once, What\u2019s your biggest strength?<\/em> My biggest strength, I think, is my impulse to always be growing and improving. I want to know more, understand more, be better, do better. And then she asked me, What\u2019s your greatest weakness?<\/em> It\u2019s that same thing because it\u2019s never enough. You\u2019re never good enough. You\u2019re never satisfied with the things you know, with the things you do. So I definitely tend to the overworking side of the equation. <\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
In the book you explore six core principles related to our productivity that Christians should be thinking about. I wonder if you could just briefly walk us through each of those principles.<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Let me see if I remember, and in English. You can help me if I don\u2019t. The first one is time. It\u2019s to understand the fact that we do have the time we need to do the things we need to be doing. Usually people say, Oh, I don\u2019t have the time<\/em>. That\u2019s the number one thing people complain about. In Ephesians 2:10, we are told that God has prepared good works for us. I don\u2019t think God says, Okay, Ana, you have thirty-six hours of good works that I\u2019ve prepared for you today. You figure it out<\/em>. God knows that I\u2019m limited. And that ties, actually, to the next principle, which is limits. You don\u2019t have to do it all. You can\u2019t do it all, I mean. You can\u2019t. No matter how much you study, you won\u2019t be able to know everything. No matter how organized you are with your time, you will not be able to catch all the meetings, do all the courses. No matter how much you try to help everybody, you won\u2019t be able to cover every need. So you can\u2019t do it all. You have to understand and embrace as good the fact that you are a limited creature. You\u2019ve been put in a specific place at a specific time with a specific gifting, and that\u2019s a good thing. The next principle is the principle of decisions. You don\u2019t have to do it all. You can make wise decisions based on the word of God and prayer, with the help of wise Christians that are around you, to figure out which are those good works that God has prepared for you. Now that you\u2019ve considered that he has prepared good works, you have the time you need to accomplish them, and you don\u2019t have to do every good work in the world, then you can make decisions. And you\u2019re going to mess up. We all do. I would like God to send me an email every morning saying, Here are your good works for today<\/em><\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
Here\u2019s your agenda.<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Yes! That doesn\u2019t happen. God is wanting us to have a life of wisdom. And I think that\u2019s intentional because that forces us to constantly go to the word of God, to prayer, to seek counsel of other people. So it\u2019s not just us with our little to-do list that flew down from heaven and we\u2019re just checking things off. We need to be constantly going to the word, to prayer, and to the church. And then we have the principle of focus. Oh, that\u2019s one of my favorites. It doesn\u2019t matter if you craft the perfect to-do list; if you don\u2019t focus on the things you have to do, you\u2019ll get lost. You won\u2019t be able to accomplish anything. Something that\u2019s fascinating to me is that people want to be to multiple places at once all the time. And we know physically we can\u2019t, but mentally we pretend we can, like with multitasking or with our phones. It\u2019s like we\u2019re listening to a sermon and at the same time we\u2019re checking messages. So we want to be to places at once. You can\u2019t. And you won\u2019t be able to accomplish things in an excellent manner if you are trying to go beyond that limit of you can be in only one place at once. So we need to learn how to focus and actually put all our energy into the task that God has put before us. And then we have habits. That principle that is not about big changes once in your lifetime, but small steps in the right direction. There\u2019s a quote by Annie Dillard\u2014I don\u2019t remember who it was exactly\u2014but it\u2019s something about how we spend our days is the way we spend our lives. So it\u2019s the little things we do in the everyday that build up to a lifetime of holiness or of just recklessness. So we need to be careful of the habits we are building in the everyday. And finally, what most people think about when we talk about productivity is tools.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
But you put it at the very end. <\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
But it\u2019s the last thing, yes, because it really doesn\u2019t matter. A productive person can be productive with pen and paper. You don\u2019t need big apps and systems, and people just get caught up in all of that. Ana, what\u2019s the best agenda or paper planner or app you use?<\/em> That doesn\u2019t matter. You just need to build your character, be aware of your limitations, pray for wisdom so you know what good works God has set out before you, focus on them, and do that every day. You can organize your things with an app or with a planner. That doesn\u2019t matter. <\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
I want to go back and talk about a couple of these in a little bit more detail. Let\u2019s start with that first one, time. As I read this chapter and thought about this, I kept thinking the main way that I probably answer the question that I get a lot, and that we all get, is, How are you doing? How\u2019s life going for you?<\/em> Probably the main way I answer it is, It\u2019s good, but really busy<\/em>. We always are constantly saying that about our lives. We\u2019re just so busy. There\u2019s so much to do, so little time. But I really do love the way you have right underneath the title of the chapter, and you kind of already said it, but you just have this little line and you say, \u201cYou have time to do what you should be doing.\u201d It\u2019s just so simple. \u201cYou have time to do what you should be doing.\u201d It\u2019s so simple and yet so profound. I wonder if you could just unpack that a little bit more for us.<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
It is true that we don\u2019t have the time to do everything we want to be doing. The problem is that we want to be doing things that we shouldn’t be doing. If we believe in a sovereign God who knows us, who loves us, and who has prepared good works for us, we can rest assured that we have the time we need to do the things that he\u2019s calling us to do. The problem is, Do we really want to do the things he\u2019s calling us to do, or do we want to do more? So I just find it very reassuring that God is good and that God has given me tasks and that he has provided everything I need to be walking in those good works he has prepared for me. But it is very humbling. I need to recognize that I sometimes want to do a lot of things that God is not calling me to do. Maybe it\u2019s because of pride, because of fear of man, because I can\u2019t say no, because I just feel like because of my upbringing or my culture around me that I\u2019m supposed to do these things. But we don\u2019t take the time to just stop and pray and ask God, God, I\u2019m crumbling down. I need help. I need guidance. I need wisdom. Please show me what are the things I should be doing<\/em>. But we are just caught up in this hamster wheel of activities and we don\u2019t just stop for a minute. Somebody asked me yesterday, I think, What would your advice be for somebody who says, \u2019I have no time. I\u2019m so overwhelmed?\u2019<\/em> And my advice is stop. Stop. And don\u2019t wait until that project is done. Don\u2019t wait until next month because this is going to be over. No, just stop right now. Stop and consider how, How are my days looking? Am I actually setting time aside for my family and to rest and to do the things that in the Bible are very clear I should be doing? That\u2019s a great place to start, with the things you should be doing\u2014the things that are clearly in the Bible. You should probably be going to church. If you don\u2019t have time for the things God is explicitly telling you in the Bible you have to do, you\u2019re probably doing something wrong. So that is something that I advise people to do, and that\u2019s why I love the day of rest. It\u2019s not like if you finished all your tasks for the week, then you should stop and have a day of rest. No. It\u2019s time to rest. It\u2019s this moment we\u2019ve set aside for this specifically. So I advise people to do that every week\u2014just have these moments that are in your calendar that are fixed. It doesn\u2019t matter how crazy the week was, you can just stop and reflect and ask God, Am I doing the works you\u2019ve set me out to do, or am I doing more or am I doing less?<\/em> Because sometimes we feel we have too much to do, not because we\u2019re doing too much, but because we\u2019re doing things wrong. We are just half working and half texting or playing something on my phone, and then when it\u2019s time to actually deliver the thing, the thing that could have taken me two hours took me like eleven because I was half working, half not.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
That gets to the focus one as well. So one of the things that you say in this chapter is you warn of the danger of \u201cif only\u201d statements when it comes to our time. You write, \u201cThey are [if only] the words that make us look longingly at an imaginary world in which things are just a little<\/em> different, while time slips through our fingers.\u201d What are some of the \u201cif onlys\u201d that you\u2019ve wrestled with in your life?<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
When my kid was a baby, he wouldn\u2019t sleep and he would be crying all the time. So it was very easy to go, Oh, if only he would sleep better. If he didn\u2019t cry that much I could get some peace, get some actual rest done. I could read my Bible more. I could go exercise<\/em>. So it\u2019s very tempting to use your circumstances as an excuse to not do what you know you should be doing and the way you should be doing it. And don\u2019t get me wrong, when you are in a specific season of life\u2014like with a baby, for example\u2014yes, it means you\u2019ll not be able to do as many things as you did before, but it\u2019s not about just longing for this moment where things will get better and now I\u2019ll be able to be productive. In this season that is challenging. That is very limiting in many aspects. How can I do the best with the things I have right now?<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
We\u2019re called to productivity in every season, not just in an ideal one. <\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Yes, and it doesn\u2019t look the same. It doesn\u2019t look the same. Yeah, I probably won\u2019t be able to have a one-hour-long, uninterrupted quiet time in this season, but that\u2019s not the thing that God is calling me to do. God is calling me to be in his word. How can I do that in this season? That\u2019s going to look different from when I was single or when I had no kids, and that\u2019s okay. And when the kids grow up a little bit, then I might be able to do something different. But it\u2019s a mistake to just be longing for the thing to end and then say, Okay, when this is over, when this changes, I\u2019m going to be productive<\/em>. And it\u2019s not bad to pray for things to change or to try to tweak things so things are better. That\u2019s good. We can do that. We can say, God, give me wisdom to help my child sleep better,<\/em> but meanwhile, I\u2019m going to do my best. I\u2019m not going to be just spending my days daydreaming of this thing being over.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
Let\u2019s talk about another important principle, and that is habits and the idea of habit formation. I think we\u2019ve all probably walked through an airport or a bookstore and we just see countless books these days about habits. Clearly, there\u2019s this cultural\u2014at least in America, but I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s the same in Guatemala and Mexico\u2014of this just desire to make better use of our time through cultivating good habits. We see the power of those, and yet I think we often have misconceptions about habits and how they work. So what are some of those misconceptions that you\u2019ve often encountered in yourself but maybe with other Christians as well?<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Maybe the most common one is that habits take an X amount of time to be developed. Oh, I\u2019m going to do this for thirty days, and then it\u2019s going to be a habit<\/em>. And really, with habits, there are no rules for them. There are habits that take on really easily (and that depends on you too), habits that take longer, habits that are more ingrained in us. Another thing that is very funny to me is that people think they don\u2019t have habits. If you haven\u2019t read that book on habits and haven\u2019t started developing them, then you think, Oh, I have no habits<\/em>. No, no, no. We all have habits. These are by design in us. God has made us creatures of habit because then our brain has the space to do all the creative, thinking, loving stuff we need to do. From the beginning of our lives, we start developing these good or bad or neutral habits of how we conduct ourselves. So we need to be very careful of what practices we\u2019re letting into our daily lives because those, even without us realizing, become the habits that shape us in the long run. And people sometimes also think that habits are just for overachievers like me that just want to improve every aspect of their life. But really, they are for everyone who wants to grow. One of the things I write most about is reading. And people ask me, How can I become a reader? I want to read as many books as you<\/em>. Well, you just read a little bit every day. Just put on a timer. It\u2019s so simple. And people think that simple things don\u2019t matter.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
Sometimes we\u2019re looking for some special trick.<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Yes. And people think that they\u2019re going to wake up ten years from now and they will have become, by magic, a big reader and a person who loves books. But that doesn\u2019t happen. It\u2019s just one day at a time, and then it becomes a little easier and a little easier. And it\u2019s just the simple things. And to me that is so refreshing and so awesome that God has made us in this way, that every step in the right direction counts, and we can build on that and we can see and look back and say, Oh, God has done so much in me through these practices that seem in the daily view so small and so insignificant. But to walk in them has made me grow so much<\/em>.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
That\u2019s such an important emphasis that when it comes to habits, we want to make sure we\u2019re not loading too much significance in weight on any individual day\u2019s experience of that habit. If we\u2019re looking towards today\u2019s reading of the Bible as this has got to change my life, we\u2019re going to be disappointed. You have to have that long view.<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Yes. For sure.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
One of the most penetrating things for me as I read this chapter was when you said, \u201cWe tend to set idealistic goals, often related to habit formation, without realizing that our daily practices take us in the opposite direction.\u201d Unpack that a little bit more for us.<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
It\u2019s like the reading thing. For example, if you want to be a person who is a deep thinker and that spends a lot of time in books, but you have your phone right next to you every morning, and you know that as soon as you wake up your brain is all foggy and you\u2019re unable to focus, and the first you thing you\u2019re going to do is pick up the phone, and then you have all these apps that are addicting and entertaining, and then two hours go by, you\u2019re still in bed, and then, oh, you have to run and do the things of life. Then you say, Oh okay, I didn\u2019t get to read today, but I\u2019m sure I\u2019ll get to it tomorrow<\/em>. And at the end of the day, you put your same phone in that same nightstand with the same apps, and you expect things to be different. You expect to become a reader when your environment and your daily practices are shaping you in the opposite direction. Not to be a deep thinker, but to be a shallow thinker who is just entertained all the time by the shiny things that are right next to you. So we cannot fool ourselves. Another one that\u2019s very common is the habit of just sleeping well. People come up to me and they tell me, Ana, I just can\u2019t wake up early. I want to do my devotional time, but I just can\u2019t get out of bed. How do you do it?<\/em> I\u2019m like, Okay, what time do you want to get out of bed? Six in the morning? Okay. And what time do you go to bed?<\/em> They just look down in shame. Two in the morning<\/em>. And I\u2019m like, Okay, well that\u2019s not going to work<\/em>. That\u2019s not how our bodies work. In Spanish, there\u2019s a phrase, \u201cWe want to swim and remain dry.\u201d<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
What a good phrase. <\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
We want to have our cake and eat it too. I think that\u2019s how you say it.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
Swim and keep dry makes more sense to me. I don\u2019t actually know what \u201chave your cake and eat it too\u201d even means.<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Yeah, you want to have the cake but you want to eat it too? Anyways, yes, we want to be on Netflix at two a.m., but we also want to be sharp and shiny at six a.m. reading our Bibles. Those things are in direct contradiction to each other.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
And sometimes they\u2019re not always the same type of thing. That\u2019s a good example where there\u2019s nothing inherently wrong with watching Netflix. There\u2019s nothing inherently wrong with staying up late, necessarily. But those, in some ways, neutral types of habits we might fall into, or practices we might get into, can actually have a very direct negative impact on good spiritual disciplines that we\u2019re trying to cultivate.<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Yeah. And sleep is so important for spiritual formation, as well as eating and drinking well. Our bodies are very important for us to be able to make wise decisions and have good self-control. We don\u2019t realize how much not taking care of our bodies affects our souls and the way we conduct ourselves in the world. So it is very important for us to check those little things we do in the every day and ask ourselves, Okay, if I do this every day for ten years, where am I going to end up?<\/em> Just do that exercise. I have people close their eyes, think about what you did before bed yesterday, and just imagine yourself doing exactly that for ten years. Where are you going to end up? In a good place? In a holy place? How is your family life going to look? Your church life? Your intellectual life? People don\u2019t realize that what they do in their everyday is shaping who they are.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
Yeah, absolutely. Another last category we\u2019ll talk about today is that of tools. And you said before you kind of want to hold that until the end because it can be easy to want to rush to tools and techniques and systems when it comes to thinking about our productivity. But with all the caveats in place, what are some of the simple tools that you found could be helpful? How would you even approach that whole topic?<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
In Latin America, I don\u2019t know how it is in the States, but people don\u2019t tend to use calendars. You say, Let\u2019s grab a coffee<\/em>. And the person answers, Oh sure! Let\u2019s do it<\/em>. And then you\u2019re waiting for the person to show up. It\u2019s like, Oh, I\u2019m sorry. I forgot<\/em>. So something as basic as that we don\u2019t know how to use sometimes. But even if we do have a calendar and we put all of our appointments in there, I notice that a lot of people, for example, you have a Wednesday with three meetings and you have them set in your calendar. But then you wake up and you make your to-do list for the day, and it\u2019s like fifty things. And then you try to put right next to it how much time each thing is going to take me. And then you add like fifty minutes because we\u2019re always very optimistic about how much time things are . . . how much time. How do you say that?<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
How long things will take. <\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Exactly. Thank you. I\u2019m sorry. Then you add things up and even if you don\u2019t sleep, you don\u2019t have enough time to do it all. So we sometimes deceive ourselves into thinking that we can do all these things. And I try to have people do an exercise with their calendars where they just have their calendar for the day and all the meetings, then add your sleeping time, then add your eating times, your devotional if you want to have one, add your commuting times. And then take your to-do list, add the times, and then try to fit things. <\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
Where is that going to fit?<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Yeah. <\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
So this kind of approach is really helping us to even ask, Are we trying to do too much? And that has this kind of boomerang effect of discouraging us when we inevitably can\u2019t end up doing all of that. So even just plotting out our days can be a helpful exercise. <\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Yeah. It\u2019s like a budget, but for your time. I think there\u2019s a quote by Donald Whitney where he said if people use their money as they use your time, we would think they\u2019re crazy because it\u2019s like, Oh, a hundred dollars for you here and a thousand for you there<\/em>. And then you get to the end of the month and you\u2019re like, Okay, I have no money for rent or for the important things<\/em>. So you wouldn\u2019t do that. You see how much money you get, the things you have to pay, and then you see, Okay, I have that much left. I can do this or I can do that<\/em>. But with time we don\u2019t do that. We just say yes until we are collapsing, and that\u2019s not wise.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
After you walk through these principles, you then have three practices or categories of practices that arise out of those principles. You start with the macro, thinking about your whole life; you move to the midterm of planning out a week; and then you look at the micro, making the most of your day. I wonder if you could just briefly walk us through that progression.<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
In the first chapter of that section I just have people think about what direction they think God is asking them to move forward. People have dreams, and that\u2019s great. We all want to do great things for God. And by great things I don\u2019t mean like become famous or make a lot of money, but do good with our lives and be of impact to the people God allows us to make an impact on. So we need to sit down and actually plan for those dreams in prayer, with the counsel of people who are wise and godly. But we need to sit down and say, Okay, I want to be a missionary. How\u2019s that going to work? I need to raise funds. I need to research on that country<\/em>. <\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
This is actually what you and your husband have done. You both were born in Mexico, but you now serve as missionaries in Guatemala. <\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Yeah. We didn\u2019t do well, though. I wrote the book after that planning, so it\u2019s a lot of my mistakes that I\u2019m learning from there because yes, you need to just sit down and create a sketch of what you think the next years are going to look like. And that will help you make the decisions for the things you can take on and the things you can\u2019t. If I want to be a missionary to Guatemala, then I cannot say yes to this overseas program in another part of the world. I cannot focus my energy on that. I need to focus my energy on this thing. So that\u2019s the big picture. And then the weekly review ties a lot to the stopping thing we were talking about before. It\u2019s just a weekly practice of no matter how your week went, if you checked off all the boxes or if everything was chaos, you just stop and pray and assess how the last week was and how the next week\u2019s going to look like. And then you make decisions like, Is this working? Is this not working? Am I taking too much? Am I taking too little? Should I cancel this, or should I move that around? Should I ask forgiveness? That\u2019s a big thing that is humiliating for everyone. Hey, I said, yes. I said I would do this, but I didn\u2019t. I\u2019m sorry. I overcommitted myself<\/em>. And then offer options to make amends and fix the thing you messed up. But that\u2019s humiliating, and sometimes we just want to pretend that didn\u2019t happen. We just ghost people and things like that. So stopping every week is a great practical, spiritual practice of getting ready for rest. That\u2019s a big thing too. I do it before my day of rest so that I just know that I can actually rest. I\u2019m not thinking about all the due dates and the deadlines.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
You process the week before that.<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Yes. And then on the daily it\u2019s just about habits and daily practices that allow you to stay on track and to, if things go south, how do you react? How do you just get back on track? That\u2019s what that section\u2019s about. <\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
It\u2019s so simple, and in some ways pretty straight forward. We know these things, but sometimes the challenge is actually doing it and actually starting. So maybe as a final question, what encouragement would you give to the person who is looking at their own life and they would say, I just feel like I\u2019ve messed up on a lot of this stuff. I don\u2019t have good habits. I waste my time. I don\u2019t feel very productive. I\u2019m not good at this, and I just kind of feel discouraged in that<\/em>\u2014what would you say to that person?<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
I will say God is for you. God is the most interested person in seeing Christ in you. He wants us to be productive, not in the toxic do-it-all and always-work kind of way, but in the Godly way, in the way that you use the things God has given you\u2014your talents, your energy, your attention, your time. You use it well for his glory and the good of your neighbor. He\u2019s one that is more interested than you\u2014even than you. So that\u2019s always encouraging to me, that he\u2019s for me. He\u2019s not in a cloud in the sky waiting for me to mess up. He has given me everything I need. He has given me Christ, who took his sacrifice, gave me a new heart that now wants the things of God, he has given me in his Spirit, his word, his church. I have everything I need to walk faithfully. And that\u2019s so encouraging. And when we mess up, and we will continue to fail, we can run to him. He has open arms, he has grace abundant for us, and we can keep going every day, one step at a time.<\/p>\nMatt Tully<\/em>
Ana, thank you so much for talking with us today and helping us all think a little bit more biblically about this topic of productivity.<\/p>\nAna \u00c1vila<\/em>
Thank you for having me.<\/p>\n
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